So.... this is different than DVD-A?

I know what you're saying, Chris. This doesn't really strike as anything different, but I guess the emphasis of the format is to present the music to everyone, not just audiophiles, whereas DVD-A was aimed squarely at the audiophile crowd - and true DVD-A played only on dedicated DVD-A players unlike the misidentified discs that masquerade as them today, which are really video DVDs with high rez audio on them and play on standard DVD players. This DVD-Album format is essentially a standard DVD with no picture element. So, yeah, it's kind of semantics in that sense.

I think, really, it's that the label is trying to replace the CD with this that is important here, by including digital audio files, but they're forgetting the most important thing: people who want CDs buy them because they're portable. They can play them in their car, in their home player, in their computer, and in any of their friends' players. With this ridiculous DVD-Album format, they are stuck on DVD-only players.

Prediction: This format will be dead in two years time.

same for sacd. its only hope was for the industry to blast everything out in hybrid format.

forget it. people listen on ipods, no hi rez necessary.

I loved SACD. I loved the Hybrid discs- rip the standard to the iPod, have the SA for home enjoyment.

Should have known it would never last.

Guys - you are completely and utterly anal. Who gives a toss about the format. Just buy the CD version and get into the album for christ's sake. Rush are back - this is not about formats. It's all about the music. Take it to the 8 track cartridge tape

Actually, it is about the format - the entire article is about the format, if you read it. I've already published a few pieces about the album in general. Please feel free to take a look around Blogcritics, you'll see some pieces by me about about Snakes & Arrows. This one is about the format. It's also about the future of music, in case you didn't notice. You know, how the CD as a medium is dying. Warner is trying to nail the coffin lid closed with this awful format and they're using the certain popularity of this title as leverage to show that people don't want audio-only discs anymore, when in fact it's just Rush fans buying it up for the behind-the-scenes documentary.

Congrats! A link to the article now appears on our Myspace Profile!

Dig it. You can't get 5.1 or 6.1 Surround Sound on CD format. Sony tried it with fake Surround with SACD several years ago and the sound was not cool. DVD allows you to do proper 5.1 Surround mixes, particularly if the album was originally mixed in stereo and 5.1 Surround formats. A band like Steely Dan usually do both. If you check with Rush's production team, I bet my money on the fact that they also did a 5.1 Surround Sound mix for the DVD version. And if not, then, yes, I agree, buying the DVD just for the documentary is a con. However, knowing Rush, it's probably a bonified 5.1 mix. Look at it this way, if we can watch movies on DVD and the audio is in 5.1, why can't have the same experience when listening to albums on DVD in 5.1 Surround?

Speaking of cons - the iPod is a complete con. I'd much rather listen to something in 5.1 in my living room instead of advertising a pair of white earplugs. I think we can all live without listening to music when we're on the run (except when it comes to going to the gym or jogging). I'd kind of like to know who's sneaking up on me to kick my head in without listening to the new Iggy Pop album on an i-Pod. Iggy was made to upset your next door neighbour. Search and then destroy (not particularly in that order). Iggy Pop, Rush - what a connection!

Dude, you're missing the point: a few months ago, this 5.1 disc would have been included as a bonus disc with the CD. Now they've upped the price and dumped the CD. We're being ripped off here and it's being paraded around as a major advancement. It's a joke - this is no different than the bonus DVDs that have been accompanying deluxe editions for years at little or no extra cost.

You may enjoy the surround sound, but very, very few people care. That's why it has failed and why this will fail, too. Most people don't have the time to devote that much money to a system to play back music in surround sound. Stereo works just fine for the majority of people. Why do you think Ipods are so popular? I know you're going to say it's because people are stupid sheep who do what they're told but that's not it - it's because people simply want their music in a simple, easy to use format. That's what the Ipod is. My listening is done in my truck on the way to work and at work. When I get home, I'm taking care of my daughter and spending time with my wife, not sitting around contemplating the placement of instruments in the 5.1 spectrum. If you can afford to do that, great, fine, but you're one of very, very few people who can do that.

The Ipod is no con. And those white headphones? Throw them away. Just like any portable player, the headphones that come with them are crap - everyone knows this, but most people are too cheap to replace them. I'm using a spectacular set of Shure headphones with mine. (Guess what color? Black!)

I'll repeat this once again: a few Rush fans will be like you, buying this solely to get the surround version of the album. The rest will be buying this to get this extremely rare glimpse into the studio creation of the album, something that we've never gotten before. You can pretend all you want that sales are being driven by legions of surround afficionados, but the truth is it's going to be Rush fans who want to see something special about their favorite band, a band that is well-known to be very private and secretive about their creative process. Do you really think I'm the only one that would buy this for the documentary feature? Because I'm reading all of the Rush forums and sites and I can tell you that I'm not alone.

I like the idea personally. I know I am in the minority and I am fine with that. The dvd will have tracks for your ipod (I have my ipod integrated in my car) and a 5.1 mix. Perfect for both worlds. I could care less about a cd. Who listens to cd's anymore - buy an ipod (or whatever you want) and rip your cd's at 220k or higher and have at it. I enjoy listening to Porcupine Tree in 5.1 at home when I get chance. There are choices - choose what is best for your lifestyle. Saying all that - at least make it affordable. $23 is a little steep.

Well i'm not sure if this is the same limited edition of the Snakes and Arrows dvd but Best Buy has this on their site. Rush snakes and arrows cd + dvd and the price is $15.99. So according to them the cd will be with the dvd. I'm not sure if they are right as there isn't any info on the page except the release date which is to weeks after the cd is released. Just something for us to check out. If this is the dvd and cd together then $15.99 is a great deal.

It's most likely a mistake, fletch. They just don't know what to categorize it as and don't realize that it's just a DVD. I'd say it's safe to place bets that come the day this thing gets released, there's going to be a lot of infuriated customers marching back into the store with the DVD saying it won't play in their CD players. However, I'd love to be wrong and for this to indeed be a separate CD+DVD release.

Note that Best Buy lists this item as a "CD+DVD". One can assume from this that there are two discs in the case, the standard audio CD and the DVD Album.

Chad, did you read my post above yours? Did you read the links I provided in the article I wrote that explained what a DVD-Album is? How about this - please read this official press release from the band about the DVD-Album, it will spell out the details for you - that this is a DVD ONLY. Best Buy is mistaken - and it wouldn't be the first time. Why does everyone put all their belief in big box stores now when they wouldn't believe anything they say in the past?

Yes, Best Buy is horrible. From my experience.! Also, here's my insight with this. CD sales are way down and they can barely sell them at $12.99 most are at $9.99 now. The bands and record labels can't make any money. Everyone is downloading music for free or, $1.00 a song. Rush put out the first single "Far Cry" on ipod download so at least they could get maybe $500,000 in ipod sales. So, CD's are not a profitable format anymore hence the DVD/cd...Rush is lucky to have a great show and following to sell the DVD concerts! The DVD/cd format is also a way to get 5.1 and up to the public. Tom Johnson said that people want their music simple, and I agree, but they want it quality too. Like upgrading from cheap headphones to Shure? Get it? Now, the DVD will also show Rush in the studio recording! That is what is going to be the best treat! SEE you all at the Rush shows! I have tickets for 3 shows around Phila,Nj and NY! If you have never seen them live, you got to go, at least just once!

As a surround fan and a Rush fan I am both excited and offended by this release. Excited that Rush has chosen to offer a 5.1 mix to their new studio album. This could have been great news for surround format fans.

Now for the bad news:

Most surround packages are less than $20 and do include the cd. Dualdiscs are normally like 15 bucks and BestBuy and many even have the true DVD-A tracks on them. This Rush package is on Sale at BB for 23 and of course has no CD. CD/DVD packages from Depeche Mode et. al are under 20 bucks and have the cd and a DVD (which includes interviews also plus the surround format). If you ask me, it's pricey.

Porcupine Tree is now getting bad, releasing a surround package for 30 bucks (cd and dvd(dts only)) and then putting out the DVD-A 6 months later. Sadly I have to skip the DVD-A.

I love surround but I won't buy the same album multiple times. For me, I'll wait for the surround version of Rush and pull the hi-res stereo pcm tracks off and re-master them to 44.1 for burn to cd, lol. Being an audio engineer helps, LOL. I'll get the best of both worlds but have to wait 2 weeks for it. Cheesy.

Don't worry, Randall, this is a doomed format from the start. It won't last too long. As I pointed out in my article and which you reiterate, it really is just the bonus DVD that we've been getting all along. The consumers are not dumb enough to not notice this, and they certainly aren't going to pay double the price for these things. As we've seen in the past, the audiophile market is next to non-existent, and that's the only market these surround discs appeal to. No, the only thing that's selling this particular disc is, again as I pointed out originally, the behind the scenes documentary.

I completely agree with Chris S. I like to have it both worlds too. The new Porcupine Tree came with cd and dvd, but for me the cd wasn't necessary. I love to listen the 5.1 surround mix of Fear of Blank Planet in my living room. I've bought a pretty expensive set of Dali speakers for my 5.1 surround and I love it that finally more 5.1 surround mixes are released on standard DVD's.

For my car or when I'm jogging I use my iPod.

So will this thing play in DVD Audio player in my Acura TL?

I am I missing some thing here? This is a audio / visual DVD in 5.1 surround sound. It also has interactive content + a video of the making of , S & A. It is compatable with all MP3 devices.

Has any one here even read what the BACKSTAGE CLUB says in it's description.?

It sells at Amazom.com for $15.99 American.

How is all of this a rip-off? This is completely new technology.

Pretty easy, Regan: of the two albums that are being released as MVIs, only the Rush album is being released as ONLY an MVI. The Linkin Park album is being released with an MVI as a bonus to the CD in a special package - at a special price to boot, which is how it should be because all it is is a bonus DVD. Rush fans are being bent over because Warner/Atlantic knows we will buy BOTH of these where LP fans will not. And trust me, I know - I hang out on all the Rush forums and I've seen the posts. Very few people who are buying the MVI are buying ONLY the MVI. So, let's see here: Rush fans buying the CD at $10-16, then buying the MVI at $16-25, depending on where you buy each . . . or Linkin Park's deal where the CD and MVI were included together for $15-20. Yeah, I think that qualifies as "rip off."

By the way, it is only "visual" in the respect that it has a documentary. There is no visual accompaniment to the album's music.

I agree with the comments about taking away the CD and charging more, but I for one am glad to see new DVD-A discs being released. I'd prefer a DualDisc that observes the established DVD-A standards, but the only place I actually listen to "discs" anymore is in my car -- which plays DVD-A. For all other playback, I can use DVD Audio Extracter to make MP3s.

Christ, Rush struggle to mix and enginner properly in stereo(VT anyone, Presto, Signals shall we go on).. never mind 5.1(God help us if Alex has been allowed near the mixing desk, remember the dvds 5.1mixes).. pass the nails and doom this format

I hope cds die a horrible death, I'd much rather listen to a richer and wider 5.1 mix than a crappy stereo mix that's as narrow as a camels arse in a sand storm! Anyways I hope most of the money gets taken out of the music biz by people freeloading, then we'll hear some great bands.

Not all CDs sound that way - only ones produced by people who don't know what they're doing. Well-produced CDs sound as good as anything can in stereo. Who the hell needs 5.1? I'll tell you who - the industry built up around 5.1 technology. THEY need YOU to need it. Stereo is just fine if handled by competent professionals, but unfortunately bands try to do everything themselves and screw it up. Don't think for a second they won't eventually try to do 5.1 by themselves and screw it up equally bad - and probably a lot worse.

So.. You think less is more, eh?

Stereo is fine. You're just going to get crappy sounding 5.1 - nothing is going to change from how it is now, you realize. You'll have your fake wide, panned, weird sounding 5.1 mixes that sound nothing like reality, which is not the way surround and hi-res is meant to sound. It's because the industry and the bands run this, not sound engineers who know what sounds best. Music sounds the way it does today because they're pushing for bigger, louder, and more aggressive. Look for CDs that were mastered and recorded well and you'll hear magic - and you'll feel the same regret that many of us do over the state of music today. I'm not saying there isn't well-done hi-res and 5.1 today, as I know there is, but it won't last once it becomes popular. It'll sound just as terrible as most standard resolution, 2-channel CDs do today.

Mate, you don't know much about Rush. You can't say, "It's because the industry and the bands run this, not sound engineers who know what sounds best". BLOGCRITIC...more like BLAGGCRITIC! Find something useful to do on the web.

Um, okay. Not sure how talk about the general state of CDs and surround sound/hi-res relates to my knowledge about a band that I've pretty much bathed myself in for the past 20 years, but if you say so.

just accept it johnson, you know NOTHING! ;-)

gee, just what i want in my music, a surround mix to add even more smear between the midrange and the high end.

sheesh!

Don't mean to cause trouble, I just think there is a stupid "ghost" channel via stereo surround, there is nothing magic about it our kid.

DVD-A and SACD stupid formats huh? Well, I think a lot of you need to get a clue as to what Hi-Rez audio is and what these formats offer. But by all means. Continue to use your ipods. Download those crappy MP3's and hit those crack pipe's kiddies. As long as SACD and DVD-A's are available, I'll continue to buy and support these formats.

Sony tried it with fake Surround with SACD several years ago and the sound was not cool.

Maybe if you ran the audio the way it was intended with SACD you wouldn't be talking that smack! With SACD, you have to run 6 analog channels. You will not hear a peep if you try to go digital. Secondly, The best way to experience surround sound is direct through these 6 analog jacks because then you are hearing the channels exactly the way they were recorded. In the digital realm, you are relying on a processor to do signal translation.
Lastly, it wasn't just about surround sound it was about DSD vs. PCM. DSD offered a sampling rate of 2.8224MHz (CD=44.1Khz) at 1 bit.

BUT, this is what you get when you have people who talk out their ass!

...and true DVD-A played only on dedicated DVD-A players unlike the misidentified discs that masquerade as them today, which are really video DVDs with high rez audio on them and play on standard DVD players.

Tom, I know you have come along way in a year and I'm pretty sure you now realize that this statement doesn't make any sense. SACD, was the format with a proprietary player. DVD-A aka DVD Audio could always be played on a regular DVD player and that was the appeal because all DVD players can produce 192Khz/24Bit audio.

I'm pretty sure that this RUSH release had both the 5.1(96Khz/24bit) mix and a 192Khz/24Bit stereo track.